Why do politicians never cite the separation of church and state when lighting menorahs at a public ceremony? Why do elected officials ignore church and state when they hold food drives for Christmas? Then, it's good for a few votes. Now? It's got to be about money. The churches pay rent, but I'm going to assume Mayor Bloomberg knows someone else is willing to pay more.

Congregations at dozens of churches are looking for new places to worship, after a policy took effect today barring religious services inside public schools. More than 50 small churches were evicted Sunday after renting space from the Department of Education for years. This comes after a federal court ruling upheld the City's decision to ban such services.

Mayor Bloomberg opposes a bill in Albany that would force the City to allow religious services in schools. The measure passed the Senate and is now being considered in the Assembly. Citing the separation between church and state, Mayor Bloomberg said today, "The Constitution seems to me to be pretty clear." What do you say?

Should places of worship be permitted to rent space in public schools? Do you agree with Mayor Bloomberg's interpretation of the Constitution in this case? How should lawmakers in the Assembly vote?

Send your thoughts using the link above.

Here is the part that I just don't get. Why don't some of these "so-called" churches want to grow and invest in a permanent church location? I saw Rev. Sabino interviewed on NY1 and he asked the question "Why should the schools/public buildings be empty on Sundays and what are "they" going to do with the spaces?" I wrote to Rev. Sabino to ask him why it mattered what the schools do with their space, afterall, it is their space in the first place. Perhaps some of these smaller churches need to merge with other churches to make one substantial church. Why do these smaller churches desire to keep limping along like a bird with a broken wing? If the members are so convinced that faith and prayer works why don't they take this as a sign that God wants them to move on and stand on their own two feet. Why is there this feeling of entitlement to the space.

The church members are acting as though they have squatters rights? Why do the members want to go to a school on Sunday instead of going to a church. No wonder the children are confused. They go to school all week long and then go back to school on Sunday. How the heck are the children supposed to know when and where to pray? They go back to school on Monday and want to pray and then they will be told it is not allowed. Somebody needs to get a grip here. They don't use some of the banks on Sunday either so why don't they hold church in there too? I am not against people having the right to practice their religions, but, try praying in the appropriate places.
Where does it stop...look out Costco, libraries, and CVS!

kathy from Throggs Neck da bronx

WHERE WAS HE TODAY AT THE SCHOOL WHERE 500 PARENTS APPEARED LOOKING FOR ANSWERS. WHEN DOES THIS MAYOR SHOW UP? HE DOESN'T EVEN SEND HIS HIGH PRICED SARCASTIC DEPUTIES EITHER. WE HAVE REACHED THE POINT WHERE NONE OF US CAN STAND LOOKING AT HIM ANY MORE NOR CAN WE STAND LISTENING TO HIM EITHER.

Thank you John,
maxxiee
mp

I guess we should all bow to the constitutional expertise of that great lawyer and jurist Michael Bloomberg. The truth its, the mayor has his view, and the courts have theirs, and Albany has theirs, and this is one case where Bloomberg's money doesn't carry any weight -- let the matter play out in Albany for now, and let the courts sort it out.

Bruce
Upper West Side
Manhattan

As someone who almost never agrees with hizzoner, on this one I say WORD! He's absolutely correct that there should be separation of church and state. This country isnt a theocracy, it was not founded by christians; they were deists and the corrupt pandering state legislators should move to Iran which is a theocratic facist nation-state, and might be more to their liking.

JS
Flushing

John,

The rule has been from the gitgo that church and state must be separate. To resolve the dispute, the government should get out of education. Then private owners of school buildings could make any deal they want with religious organizations.

Joe
Port Richmond, SI

Tax them and they can use my schools.

Rich
midtown east

If the space is rented for something legal - what is the big issue ? The only people there will be the ones participating and not in anyones way - so what is really behind all this hoopla ?

Inquiring Minds Want to Know.
Esmerelda, East Village, NYC

The ban to religious services in the public schools would be unfair to many New Yorkers. Those who use the schools to practice religious rehearsals and conduct religious services in the schools do keep them nice and clean. The services take place on weekends when the schools are closed. Also, the people are well behaved and more orderly than revellers at rap and hip-hop or rock concerts. Worshippers who use the public schools for their services should continue to do so because they are usually the neatest people around.

CARL (CAPTAIN KEYBOARD)
Coney Island

CHURCH AND STATE ARGUMENT ASIDE, WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL? WE HAVE CO MINGLING OF CHURCH AND STATE EVERYDAY. DO YOU PROMISE TO TELL THE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH SO HELP YOU G_D? CURRENCY DECLARES IN G_D WE TRUST. MANY A STUDENT I AM SURE HAVE MADE SILENT PRAYER WHEN IT CAME TO AN EXAM OR ATHLETIC EVENT. G_D DOESN'T BULLY OR CARRY GUNS, PERHAPS WE NEED TO FRISK THE THUGS INSTEAD OF PATTING DOWN G_D

JOE, BAY TERRACE

I am indeed sorry that these dozen of churches will no longer have a place to worship. I understand what the Mayor is saying about the Constitution; however, it's not as if these churches are interfering with the schools or trying to convert the students. As least, I do not think so!!! I guess the Federal court had to uphold the City's decision and I do not understand why the Senate and the Assembly are working on a bill once the Federal Court has ruled on the matter. Is it all political?

Perhaps some of the larger churches have an assembly room or a space where these small churches can use for worship. I hope that they all find new places.

Maddalena
Midtown West-Manhattan

I am appalled about the city evicting churches from city schools. To begin with church services do not occur during school hours and therefore do not violate church and state. Added to that these churches provide vital servics to the community as well as helping those in need. I think this is an attempt by some to impose an assault on organize religion. This truely is a sad day for those who only want to help the needy and foster moral values.

Freddy- Glen Oaks Village

Renting schools for private meetings is not the same thing as establishing an official religion.

Dennis From Brooklyn

There is, and should be, a separation of religion and state. Would the folks protesting the "banning" of Christian worship services speak out in favor of Muslim, Wiccan, Pagan or Scientology services getting equal time? if so, fine. if not, well, they have no leg to stand on.

deb
jackson heights

i work in school in Greenwich village we use to have two churches services one Christian one Korean it worked very good people was very nice lot of parents was coming for service i think its a very good idea

filip

Other states allow worship in schools. The city needs the money. Every organization should be be able to rent space.

Rhoda
Upper East Side

I think that it is fine for the government to kick these religious meetings out of the school classrooms, as it could become confusing and it could be supporting a certain faith. There is just one more thing you guys need to realize, Separation of Church and State is not even IN the constitution or the bill of rights, so we cannot say that breaking that would be unconstitutional, rather it would be breaking advice that our forefathers gave us (Thomas Jefferson). I am surprised you guy don't even know that.

Joseph
Brooklyn, New York

The DOE allows Muslim students to pray in schools. What's the Mayor's answer to this situation?

Keith
Manhattan

I had no idea that New York City was renting out churches from the Archdiocese to house public schools. I'd like to thank The Call and NY1 for publicizing this fact. This begs many questions: Why can't the City build its own schools or buy its own buildings so that public schools are not at the mercy of private landlords? Why does the City think that this method of subsidizing the Catholic church is acceptable? And how is this not "respecting an establishment of religion," which is specifically prohibited by the First Amendment to the Constitution? Keeping churches out of public schools and keeping public schools out of churches is the only sane solution.

Chris,
Lower East Side

Please keep religion and civil life separate. Church and School don't mix.

Anonymous

I'm willing to bet that people wouldn't be defending the rights of religious institutions to use schools if it were a muslim group. Renting to church groups puts on display the preference of government towards christian groups over others.

Mike
Carroll Gardens

I don't have a child in a school, but I pay my school taxes. I do not practice a religion, either. Therefore, I would prefer that there are no religious affiliations within the public schools that my tax dollars go to.

Kristine
Washington Heights

Bloomberg is anti-Christian. He is just as prejudiced, biased and nasty as the worst kind of anti-Semite. He is no better. He needs to go.

Frances
East Village

With all issues religious we must apply the litmus test--How do we feel about whatever is at hand if instead of a Christian group we have a group of Muslims or perhaps a sect we don't know too much about. How would people feel about men entering a school on a late Friday afternoon, as other groups are still leaving, to practice their religion? The founders of this country were looking out for people who were escaping religious persecution when they wrote up our laws about freedom of religion. What is good for one religion must be good for the next.

Veronica
Jcksn Hts

A congregation without a church should seek to rent another church for services. They could use the church for afternoon services and might get more people to attend. No one likes to get up early on a Sunday morning.

Jim
St. George, Staten Isalnd

Mayor Bloomberg is riduculous. The board of education could rent a space from a church for a school but churches or any religious organization can't rent a space from the board of education. A church was renting a space for 10,000 dollars. And we can't use the money. Really So. Who was the bright one and put Mayor Bloomberg back in office. So if it was a non religious organization would they be able to rent the space. isn't that discrimination then. isnt that a double standard.

TASHARA
A CHRISTIAN.

These churches are often poor and really can't afford commercial rent to meet for just a few hours a week. The same churches still offer services and aid to their local communities no matter the religious affinities or lack of the recipients. They are actually a very helpful force for the communities.

I don't see what the concerns are. The schools aren't known as "christian" institutions just for renting the space. And I have never heard of any church renting space to be disruptive to the communities. It seems that the discrimination is really against the christians.

Karl

Bloomberg is right . Keep the religious people out the god dam schools.

TerribleTim

Unfortunately, our society has a school schedule that occupies these public buildings Monday through Friday. If that interferes with a religious group's day of meeting, that is merely a conflict of schedule that our school system has set. There is no reason that all religious groups should be disallowed to use the facilities on Sunday, or other times that are available--Muslim, Jewish, and atheistic groups included. To say that the government is geared towards giving Christian groups a preference since they are most likely to use facilities on Sunday is a gross misstatement, and completely overlooks the issue that all groups have the right to use the space when it is available.

It is my hope that regardless of the situation, Christians would not use the circumstances as an opportunity to protest, but to use it as an opportunity to let New Yorkers know that no matter the circumstances, they are there to serve and love our neighbors, as Christ has ultimately called them to do.

Nate, Hell's Kitchen

John,

I understand those who say that it isn't hurting anyone. And I can't really disagree with that. But I personally would prefer that all religion is kept out of the schools. Just as it is their preference to worship or not, it is my preference to ensure that there is no entanglement.

Mark
Rego Park

I am a big supporter if the mayor but in this case he is being given very bad advise. the board of ed rents out space to all kinds of groups and organizations...boy scouts, girl scouts, home owners assocations, youth groups, sr groups, etc. They now even charge sports programs and marching bands to use school after hours. To bar one group because they worship instead of doing zumba is nuts.

What are you thinking mayor mike..
Your biggest supporter..

Wayne from staten island.

Please respect my anonymity. I am a member of a Special Interest Alcoholics Anonymous Meeting for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender People which used to meet at a school. Shortly after a religious group began renting another space at that school and paid much more rent than us, our rent was more than tripled. I don't like the influence that some religious groups put on institutions they use. So I am opposed to allowing church use of public school space.

I think religious groups should be able to rent space in public schools so long as all religious groups are given the same opportunities and equal access. What I don't understand is why are churches closing while attendance in public school buildings practicing religions are increasing? Maybe these churches and spaces which have closed need to rexamine their outreach strategies.

JC

Mayor Bloomberg about the Mosque near Ground Zero: “We in New York . . . are Americans, each with an equal right to worship and pray where we choose. There is nowhere in the five boroughs that is off-limits to any religion. By affirming that basic idea, we will honor America’s values, and we will keep New York the most open, diverse, tolerant and free city in the world.” Why can't he follow his own advice?

Mayor Bloomberg is stomping on the freedom of religion and the freedom of speech in order to avoid the appearance of the establishment of one religion in one school. Fact: numerous religions could rent the same school.

Rich

The mayor is into control as he neglects the basic rights of New Yorkers. He needs to let the people exercise their right to worship.

SC

I see no harm in religious oranizations renting space in public schools to worship , after all, the public school is a public place. I can not make it any clearer.

Anonymous

It is amazing that people are against Mayor Bloomberg...of course this is political...the founding fathers made it political - church and state must remain separate...if not, we become Iran, we inch toward a theocracy....I do NOT want that...if churches don't have a space, they should look inward to see why they don't have the money for their own space...not enough people are going to their churches ! That does not mean the rest of us have to have religion thrust onto our public, tax based, not religiously driven schools...this is clear-cut...most of us have had it with religion trying to corrupt the political system by demanding that the separation of church and state is not important or worse, are against it !

Gene

A lawyer or layperson cannot state the true meaning of what Constitutional law is, only a Judge can give that holding! People are to foolish to realize the potential for opening up Pandora's Box. Public Schools are built and operated by a branch of the U.S. Government! No religion can be practiced, taught or held in any empty Government building. What if the KKK, the Nation of Islam, religious cults or White Supremacist organizations. This topic is not about hard financial times or liberal pipe dreams! This topic is about upholding the principles of the U.S. Constitution supported by the Federalists papers!!!

Michael

These are religous people who arent hurtin anyone by renting space for they're congregation to worship peacefully on a sunday when there is no school! The city puts up with his bully tactics bcuz they pay him $1 a year when payin sum1 else a full salary to actually look out for the city's best interest would be $$ better spent!

From
Mireya in Bk

The city policy to bar religious institutions from renting in public schools is allegedly based on the "separation of church and state" -- a phrase which doesn't appear in the First Amendment, actually. The truth is the city is targeting the elimination of First Amendment rights to freedom of religion and freedom of speech while deceptively wrapping it in a specious argument that renting the school to churches constitutes the "establishment of religion." An argument the city has raised is that children will be "confused" by the presence of churches in the schools. This argument holds no weight since the rental happens during non-school hours.

One caller tonight spoke of the fact that this policy and other federal initiatives (Health care) are effectively establishing atheism as the national religion by stripping away individual freedoms to freedom of religion and health care choices. Anyone with eyes to see can confirm that observation.

Rev. Joyce

Can't someone from your staff just pull up the 1st Amendment to the Constitution on the internet? You will be surprised as to how short and simple it is. Please do it.

Mathew

Most Americans do not understand the US Constitution. And most professional baseball players do not understand most of the rules. No tweeking of the constitution.

When I was young my church used its own space for social activities. Religions should provide their own spaces for their own purposes. And the unholy alliance between the NYPD and churches allowing double parking on Sundays is also unconstitutional. This practice is done at tremendous inconvenience to non-parishoners who live on blocks with churches. On my block this unconstitutional practice even extends to week night church meetings.

And by the way, a religion is not "the public."

George,
Northern Manhattan

I'd like to know where was Bloomberg's deep belief in separation of church and state when he visited the churches to gather the members' votes during each of the elections? It's hypocrisy! It's ludicrous!

Carole E. in Harlem

I don't understand the controversy over schools renting empty space to churches when school is not in session. Schools are in need of funding. Real estate is real estate. Renting would help provide this funding towards educating children.

When, and if, empty rooms are unused, they should be made available to various groups that are able to use that unallotted time. Because school schedule is fixed (weekdays), I don't believe that discriminates over who gets to use the space on evenings or weekends. It's not up to the school to change its fixed schedules to accomodate outside groups wishing to rent. Whomever is available when the space is available should be placed on a first come-first served, rotating list, to rent the space, with no tenure provided to any one group.

So long as no advertising or proselytizing is being done to the students or neighborhood: no pamphlets left lying around, no canvasing for support or donations, no use of school bulletin boards, etc., I don't see this as an issue of mixing church and state. The students needn't ever know which group rents the empty rooms when they're unused for schooling.

I'd be surprised if Bloomberg isn't behind supporting this as it seems a very reasonable solution to budget cut problems in economic hard times.

Robin
Greenwich Village

I think the City should concentrate on creating policies to control hate crimes effectively. Not ban the practice of religious gatherings that promote peace and love. If this ban goes through it will be unconstitutional- because- Where is the freedom of religion?

Eileen

How hypocritical!!! The "church" is using the space, not enforcing it's beliefs on any other person or group within its wall! Isn't the church paying to use this space? If the church can't use the space, then no politically orientated or other group should be allowed to use the space. Only those with the exact mindset and belief system of the mayor should be allowed the privillage to pay to use public space!!!!...After all, isn't a PUBLIC school PUBLIC???? Community groups should not be allowed to use church space either with this logic!!! Are we a city so FULL of beurocracy that we are no longer communities and neighborhoods????!!!!!

LL
Greenwich Village